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Fate vs freewill ancient greek society
The concept of fate and mortality in iliad
Fate and free will
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What would convince you to let your child die? Money? Fame? Power? Zeus has all of these, and more. Yet, in book 16 of the Iliad, when faced with the choice to save his son or watch him meet his painful, violent fate in battle, he chooses the latter (16.545). Hera successfully convinces Zeus, the most powerful Greek god, to watch passively as his beloved son is slain. Zeus does nothing to help Sarpedon though he easily could have rushed him out of harm’s way. Why does he choose this? Was it because Sarpedon was fated to die? Initially, it may seem like Zeus defers to fate, but a closer reading suggests otherwise. The passage makes it clear that fate is an illusion and has no real power over the gods.
The text begins to reveal the
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emptiness of fate when Hera emphasizes flattery and logic over fate to influence Zeus. Hera begins her appeal to Zeus with flattery, calling him “[d]read majesty,” a term showing his superiority, and “son of Cronos,” which associates him with the power Cronos possessed (16.523). Hera is a master manipulator, and she knows that the best way to talk to someone with power is to. She warns Zeus that “if [he] send[s] Sarpedon home, living still, beware! Then surely some other god will want to sweep/ his son clear of the heavy fighting too—,” (16.529-?). Hera reasons that if Zeus saves Sarpedon he will establish a precedent, and the other gods will follow suit. This would be disastrous, since, as she observes “[m]any who battle round King Priam’s mighty walls are sons of the deathless gods,” (16.524). Although the foundation of Hera’s argument is logical, she mentions fate when she points out that Sarpedon’s “doom was sealed long ago,” (16.524). This is clearly a minor point to Hera. She does not reinforce it with potential consequences, as she does with her other points; she does not mention fate in the remainder of her speech. Hera uses logic again for her final arguments, stating that Zeus would “inspire lethal anger in them all,” if he chooses to save his son (16.534). Lethal anger implies violence, meaning the possibility of a revolt of “them all,” the other gods. Hera knows that a god as powerful as Zeus fears a loss of that power. Should a conflict between Zeus and all the other gods arise, it is possible that Zeus would be dethroned. Hera then appeals to Zeus’ need for glory by saying “none of the deathless gods will ever praise [him],” if he saves Sarpedon (16.528). This argument plays to Zeus’ desire to be glorified. Hera reasons that as much as Zeus loves his son, he loves his own power and glory more. These arguments form the cornerstone of her plea to Zeus, because she appeals to his greed with logical points. Her words accomplish their purpose. After her passionate speech, “the father of men and gods complied at once,” (16.544-545). Zeus is quick to realize the validity of Hera’s points, and makes his decision immediately. The existence of Zeus’ decision further demonstrates fate’s lack of substance.
Although Zeus refers to his own “cruel fate,” it clearly doesn’t control him (16.514). His “heart is torn in two,” as he weighs whether he will defy fate and save “the man [he] love[s] the most” or “beat him down at Patroclus’ hands,” (16.515, 521). If fate were a power above the gods, Zeus would not have this choice to save his son: the man “doomed to die” (16.516). Additionally, Hera, rather than trusting fate, is concerned. She shows this when she “protested strongly,” with “her eyes wide,” Zeus’ suggestion that he might save Sarpedon (16.522). If fate is as powerful as the gods pretend it is, she could trust it to ensure Sarpedon’s death. Instead, she realizes the implications of Zeus’ choice and protests. Hera does not dispute the fact that what happens to Sarpedon is up to Zeus, but rather reinforces it, saying “do as you please, Zeus…” (16.526). Hera reveals her real opinion of fate with this comment. If she thought fate had any power, she would not acknowledge that the decision was …show more content…
Zeus’. The exchange between Zeus and Hera in this passage illustrates a difference between how fate is seen and how it really works.
Both cite fate in their dialogue, but neither gives it much credit. Hera does not warn Zeus of the dangers of fighting against fate, but instead puts her trust in power and logic. Zeus makes his decision only after Hera points out the reasons why saving Patroclus would be detrimental to his status, not when she reminds him that Sarpedon is fated to die. The passage reveals fate is to be nothing but a penciled-in plan—one that the gods can defy at their whim. This has profound implications for the rest of the text. Mortal men in the Iliad frequently struggle with their fate, but never challenge it. They see fate as an immovable object, something that can be resisted but never defied outright. If fate is as empty as the text suggests, these men are blindly following the gods’ fickle desires when they could be controlling their own lives. They follow fate to war and to their deaths. Without this illusion leading them, how would the story change? Would there be one? Only the gods
know.
The subject of Homer’s epic poem, the Iliad, is very clearly stated--it is “the rage of Peleus’ son Achilles.” The reader remains continually aware of the extent of Achilles’ rage, yet is never told the reason why Achilles remains angry and unreconciled. There is no definitive answer to this question. Achilles is not a static character. He is constantly changing; thus the question of why he remains angry solicits different answers at various stages throughout the poem. To find an answer, the reader must carefully examine Achilles’ ever-changing dilemma involving the concepts of mortality and honor. At its simplest, Achilles’ dilemma is that if he goes to war, he will die. But he will die with glory.
In Sophocles ' Oedipus the King, the themes of fate and free will are very strong throughout the play. Only one, however, brought about Oedipus ' downfall and death. Both points could be argued to great effect. In ancient Greece, fate was considered to be a rudimentary part of daily life. Every aspect of life depended and was based upon fate (Nagle 100). It is common belief to assume that mankind does indeed have free will and each individual can decide the outcome of his or her life. Fate and free will both decide the fate of Oedipus the King.
Fate has a place in the Greek world but its place is not the same as it is in other scenarios or worlds. It is important to understand the word before we discuss it. Fate as far as Greek mythology goes is not just fate. By most standards fate means that things occur for an unknown reason that no one has any control over. However, in the world of Greek Mythology fate does not just happen. The gods engineer fate and they interfere to make things happen that might not otherwise have happened. Since the players do not always know of the gods' involvement, things may actually appear to be fate but in reality be engineered happenings.
The Iliad and the Fate Of Patroclus Throughout The Iliad Of Homer, the constant theme of death is inherently. apparent. The snares are not. Each main character, either by a spear or merely a scratch from an arrow, was wounded or killed during the progression of the story. For Zeus' son, a king.
According to Ovid, Zeus "acted, however, with very little wisdom for the Father of Gods and Men..." (80) when he wraps the earth in darkness. Though Ovid implies that Zeus makes an illogical decision, Ovid's statement is subjective. Sure, because of the strange occurrence, Hera takes notice; but Zeus also buys time. Time is essential to think properly, and Zeus uses his time to conjure the brilliant idea of transforming Io into a heifer. Hera should have been fixated, almost mesmerized when she saw Io, as the cow is sacred to her. Zeus’ thought process is legitimate and cohesive, after all, Hera’s doubt should have been assuaged. Nonetheless, Hera still suspects infidelity. Even so, Zeus does not lose his cool and kept calm. He let Hera have her way and gave the heifer willingly. Later he craftily has Hermes free Io. Zeus is known for his rashness, but betrays that stereotype again by waiting patiently and using a vessel so that he would not be found guilty. Zeus really thinks his plan through, for he accounts for the consequences of being caught and or
The ancient Greeks were fond believers of Fate. Fate, defined according to Webster’s, is “the principle or determining cause or will by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as the do.” The Greeks take on Fate was slightly modified. They believed that the gods determined Fate: “…fate, to which in a mysterious way the gods themselves were subject, was an impersonal force decreeing ultimate things only, and unconcerned with day by day affairs.” It was thought that these gods worked in subtle ways; this accounts for character flaws (called harmatia in Greek). Ancient Greeks thought the gods would alter a person’s character, in order for that person to suffer (or gain from) the appropriate outcome. Such was the case in Oedipus’s story.
The idea of fate has existed for a long time and exists even today. Fate revolves around the idea that people's lives are predetermined and that no matter what is done it cannot be changed. With the gods it was used to explain events that seemed strange. Sophocles expands on this idea by introducing Oedipus' fate. The thought of fate is strong considering no matter how hard he struggles he still receives what was predetermined. As a baby he survived the elements on Mount Cithaeron. As Oedipus was destined to live, it shows the dominance of fate. Having fate play such a large part of the play is certainly an insight into the Greek's idea that fate controls us no matter how hard we struggle against it.
In English literature and Greek mythologies fate and free will played colossal responsibilities in creating the characters in the legendary stories and plays. The Greek gods believed in fate and interventions, predictions of a life of an individual before and after birth which the individual has no control over their own destiny. Free will and fate comingle together, this is where a person can choose his own fate, choose his own destiny by the choices the individual will make in their lifetime. According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the definition of free will is the “freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior cause of divine intervention”. Fate and the gods who chose their destinies directed Gilgamesh, Oedipus and Achilles.
Oedipus stresses not so much man's guilt or forsakeness as his ineluctable lot, the stark realities which are and always will be. The Greek tradition is less nostalgic and less visionary---the difference being in emphasis, not in kind. There is little pining for a lost Golden Age, or yearning for utopia, redemption, or heavenly restitution. But if it stresses man's fate, it does not deny him freedom. Dramatic action, of course, posits freedom; without it no tragedy could be written. In Aeschylus' Prometheus Kratos (or Power) says, "None is free but Zeus," but the whole play proves him wrong. Even the Chorus of helpless Sea Nymphs, in siding with Prometheus in the end, defy the bidding of the gods. Aeschylus' Orestes was told by Apollo to murder his mother, but he was not compelled to. The spirit with which he acquiesced in his destiny ( a theme which Greek tragedy stresses as Job does not) is of a free man who, though fated, could have withdrawn and not acted at all. Even Euripides, who of all the Greek Tragedians had the direst view of the gods' compulsiveness in man's affairs, shows his Medea and Hippolytus as proud and decisive human beings. And, as Cedric Whitman says about the fate of Oedipus, the prophecy merely predicted Oedipus' future, it did not determine it.
One of the main themes in Oedipus the King written by Sophocles is the debate between free will and fate. There are many free choices that were made in the play, such as the decision for Oedipus to pursue the knowledge of his own identity. However, fate is responsible for many of the other critical events that took place in the play, such as Oedipus’s incest. Fate is made to seem very important in this play because it is written to seem that the characters cannot be held fully responsible for their actions due to fate.
In Herodotus’ story, the bones of tragic hero Orestes served as protection for the Tegeans. Fagle’s allusion is crucial to Sophocles’ depiction of redemption as a result tragedy, in Oedipus at Colonus. In Oedipus at Colonus, we finally witness the triumph of free will over fate. Due to free will, Oedipus is doomed to suffer, and because of his damnation, he learns to accept they ways of the gods and is thus blessed in death (Lines 424-433). We can therefore conclude that Oedipus’ desired free will to escape his fate, led him to redemption. Despite his redemption, fate continues to influence the lives of his children: Antigone and Ismene doomed to carry their father’s shame, and Polynices and Etiocles, doomed to kill each other. Overall, we notice that in Greek Culture, fate holds more power over free will, but it is only through free will that the Greeks through learning by suffering, and are thus blessed by their gods. In conclusion it is safe to say that though fate holds more influence over free will, both fate and free will are of equal value to the Ancient
Homer's Iliad is commonly understood as an epic about the Trojan War, but its meaning goes deeper than that. The Iliad is not only a story of the evolution of Achilleus' persona, but at times it is an anti-war epic as well. The final book proposes many questions to the reader. Why not end with the killing of Hektor? Most stories of war conclude with the triumphant victory of good over evil, but in the Iliad, the final thoughts are inclined to the mourning of the defeated Hektor, which accentuates the fact that good has not triumphed over evil, but simply Achilleus triumphed over Hektor. Ending with the mourning of Hektor also brings to center stage for the first time the human side of war and the harsh aftermath of it. We see that war not only brings great glory, but also much suffering and anguish. Homer puts his anti-war views on display.
Oedipus' destruction was foretold to his father and mother, Laius and Jocasta, when he was born. It was told to him again when he was a young Corinthian prince, to which he ran from home ("I heard all that and ran" 876). Tiresias tells it to him again during the passage of the Oedipus Rex. The destiny of Oedipus has been laid down, unalterable from the moment he was created. He was fated to marry his mother and kill his father. Phaedra is not controlled by fate. She is possessed by a frivolous deity ("the goddess' anger has landed on your head" p142), stung by her lack of praise and with a grudge against Phaedra's stepson Hippolytus. Thus it is the goddess, Aphrodite, that causes Phaedra to fall in love with the young Athenian prince. The suicide of Phaedra, and her lying words on the note she writes before she dies, brings destruction on the blasphemous Hippolytus, as his father Theseus curses his son. Both characters undeniably have supernatural powers acting upon their destiny. However, it is important to remember that her suicide and the destruction of Hippolytus are not on account of fate. She is under control of the goddess Artemis. Therefore her actions are not directly under her control. Oedipus on the hand has a path laid out by fate ("you were born for pain" 1305). It is a path that has been destined for him all of his life and he is aware of what the gods have set in motion. He is a "man of agony". However, it is Oedipus' fighting of the gods' judgement which brings the destruction. The path might have been laid out but it was Oedipus that walked down it. Oedipus' own innate character flaw (hamartia) of hubris (pride) is his own undoing and without it his fate could not have come to pass. His pride forced him to k...
Homer’s The Iliad: Book XX features a battle between the Trojans and Achaians, shortly after Patroklus’ death (Lattimore Book XVI), where the gods must intervene in order to restrain Achilleus’ destructive nature that becomes amplified due to the grief and wrath as a result of the loss of his cousin/lover. The divine foresaw an early fall of Troy caused by the intensified destructive nature of Achilleus, therefore they interfered in the battle to protect a bigger ideal of fate, a fate of a nation, by manipulating smaller ideals of fate, the fates of people’s lives(Lattimore 405). At the beginning of the battle, after the gods descended from Olympus, they decide to sit and just watch how their mortal teams will fend for themselves until Apollo takes form as Lykoan and coerce Aeneias to challenge Achilleus, thus establishing the first act of divine intervention (Lattimore 406-407). When Achilleus is inches away from killing Aeneias, Poseidon takes sympathy upon him and whisks him off to safety (Lattimore 407-411). The last interference occurs during the confrontation between Hektor and Achilleus, where Achilleus is about to murder him and Apollo saves Hektor (Lattimore 416). Hektor’s rescue in this battle is an important event in the Iliad because Achilleus’ and Hektor’s fates are interrelated, further meaning that if Hektor die...
REVISE THIS FIRST SENTENCE HERE!!!!!!!!****** In ancient greek culture, the idea of having gods determining the fate of the civilians was common. The actions taken by the citizens are purely based around fate, and in no way are related to doing things by choice. By knowing that the consequences of their actions are not controlled by themselves, the ancient greek citizens realize that they will not be the cause of their problems, as fate takes over and controls the results of their actions, which ultimately leading to their downfall. There are many sources for the downfall of the characters, however, fate is uncontrollable and takes over any situation and causes problems. try to rephrasing during editing because this is repetitive The one