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Plato: Republic: By Allan Bloom
In the Plato’s Republic mainly discuses the idea of what justice is. The answer to this question has a variety of answers according to the Republic, which makes it very interesting. Throughout this book, you will be driven in many directions of what justice is. Some may the answer is to primarily is doing the right thing. The main issue comes from about is whether to try and be just at the expense of staying poor, or lie, or even use the very unjust means to get what one wants in life. The main point of the book is a man who tries to be very just, may spend life wandering in the streets in search for money, while the man who lies to get their way, will be rich. This essay looks at the Thrasymachus’s concept of and the Socrates’s concept of justice. The essay also looks at the author thinks that the unjust man will be happier that the just man. It explores the reasons why the concepts are right or wrong.
In book one, Thrasymachus definition of justice is, “the advantage of the stronger” (341d). His view on justice that justice always gives more authority and rule to people who are already in power. The argument that Thrasymachus makes is difficult to understand. His statement may make one believe that the people who are being ruled are considered to act right when their actions are going towards benefiting the rulers. You can also make an interpretation that the ruling class acts fairly by doing things that will benefit them. The confusion comes because Thrasymachus expresses his belief that, when the ruling classes do things that is geared towards benefiting them, they are acting unfairly. In his quote he says “advantage to the stronger”, which means Thrasymachus is arguing the concerns of justice...
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...ons of the people. Socrates brings out the argument that the leaders do whatever they do for the interests of the people. The leaders are stronger than the citizens, the leaders should consider the people as their bosses and work for them. This explains why Socrates accepts that everything the leaders say or do. They do things with the interests of the others. As Socrates argues, leaders are not in power to benefit them. They are in power to serve the interests of the people who put them to those positions.
In conclusion, the concept of justice defined by Thrasymachus and Socrates has opposing views. Thrasymachus views justice as making one unhappy. He says that lying and stealing is a way out. On the contrary, Socrates brings out justice as a pure of the soul. Socrates reflects the wishes of the society while Thrasymachus reflects a society that has rotten values.
...purpose is “to unmask the hypocrisy and show how the meaning of Justice is being perverted” . He is not prepared to argue, leaving Socrates victorious. Here, Socrates’s method of argumentative questioning is insufficient and naïve against a stubborn, powerful and philosophically certain moral skeptic. This is confirmed by the change in investigative approach in the latter books. Thus the ‘earlier’ Plato cannot adequately respond to Thrasymachus’s immoralist view of Justice.
Thrasymachus, tired of holding his tongue back, barges into the argument and asks Socrates exactly what justice is; since Socrates cannot answer Thrasymachus offers his perception:
Justice is generally thought to be part of one system; equally affecting all involved. We define justice as being fair or reasonable. The complications fall into the mix when an act of heroism occurs or morals are written or when fear becomes to great a force. These complications lead to the division of justice onto levels. In Aeschylus’ Oresteia and Plato’s Republic and Apology, both Plato and Aeschylus examine the views of justice and the morality of the justice system on two levels: in the city-state and the individual.
Thrasymachus believes that he is only elucidating his viewpoint but Socrates is able to turn his views over, and pick out the fallacies. Socrates is not trying to make a fool out of him; on the contrary, he is “trying to help Thrasymachus enter a state of productive confusion in which he will discover that he does not know what he things he does, and then want to learn about what he does not know”. While the dialogue with Thrasymachus in the first book of “The Republic” ends with his silence, we are left with the notion that Thrasymachus’ silence adds as much, if not more, to the dialogue, than his partaking in the dialogue. Although Thrasymachus is silent for the rest of The Republic, his view is still very much present throughout the rest of the Republic. Thrasymachus’ challenge of the definition of justice stays with the reader for the rest of The
Plato’s Republic focuses on one particular question: is it better to be just or unjust? Thrasymachus introduces this question in book I by suggesting that justice is established as an advantage to the stronger, who may act unjustly, so that the weak will “act justly” by serving in their interests. Therefore, he claims that justice is “stronger, freer, and more masterly than justice” (Plato, Republic 344c). Plato begins to argue that injustice is never more profitable to a person than justice and Thrasymachus withdraws from the argument, granting Plato’s response. Glaucon, however, is not satisfied and proposes a challenge to Plato to prove that justice is intrinsically valuable and that living a just life is always superior. This paper will explain Glaucon’s challenge to Plato regarding the value of justice, followed by Plato’s response in which he argues that his theory of justice, explained by three parts of the soul, proves the intrinsic value of justice and that a just life is preeminent. Finally, it will be shown that Plato’s response succeeds in answering Glaucon’s challenge.
The debate between Thrasymachus and Socrates begins when Thrasymachus gives his definition of justice in a very self-interested form. Thrasymachus believes that justice is only present to benefit the ruler, or the one in charge – and for that matter any one in charge can change the meaning of justice to accommodate their needs (343c). Thrasymachus provides a very complex example supporting his claim. He states that the man that is willing to cheat and be unjust to achieve success will be by far the best, and be better than the just man.
In the Introduction of Plato's Republic, a very important theme is depicted. It is the argument of whether it is beneficial for a person to lead a good and just existence. The greatly argued position that justice does not pay, is argued by three men Thrasymachus, Glaucon, and Adeimantus. By incorporating all three men into a collective effort I believe I can give a more flattering depiction of injustice.
Thrasymachus believes that the definition that justice is what is advantageous for the stronger. Thrasymachus definition quote
Hourani, George. Thrasymachus' Definition of Justice in Plato's Republic. 2. 7. Focus Publishing, 1962. eBook. .
Traditionally justice was regarded as one of the cardinal virtues; to avoid injustices and to deal equitable with both equals and inferiors was seen as what was expected of the good man, but it was not clear how the benefits of justice were to be reaped. Socrates wants to persuade from his audience to adopt a way of estimating the benefits of this virtue. From his perspective, it is the quality of the mind, the psyche organization which enables a person to act virtuously. It is this opposition between the two types of assessment of virtue that is the major theme explored in Socrates’ examination of the various positions towards justice. Thus the role of Book I is to turn the minds from the customary evaluation of justice towards this new vision. Through the discourse between Cephalus, Polemarchus and Thrasymachus, Socaretes’ thoughts and actions towards justice are exemplified. Though their views are different and even opposed, the way all three discourse about justice and power reveal that they assume the relation between the two to be separate. They find it impossible to understand the idea that being just is an exercise of power and that true human power must include the ability to act justly. And that is exactly what Socrates seeks to refute.
I will be focusing on book one of Plato: The Republic, and discussing one of his arguments that he presents which is the discredit of Thrasymachus’ definition of what just is. The argument I will be talking about is “what is justice?” Socrates keeps giving counter examples whenever Thrasymachus says something he believes just to be and always seems to discredit the thought of what the definition could be.
‘(Will) the city that thus shows itself superior to another…have this power without justice?” (351b) “do you think that a…group that attempted any action in common, could accomplish anything if they wronged one another?” (351c) Thrasymachus agrees that it could not and that injustice causes division and strife that prevents unity. Socrates goes on to point out that an individual member of this community that behaved in an unjust way would be divided against himself and therefore not able to achieve much. “utter rascals completely unjust are completely incapable of effective action"(352c). He continues by stating that a just man is able to accomplish things and achieves the “the right conduct of life.”
Socrates then builds his argument gradually by stating that the good and just man looks out for the interest of the weaker, and not for himself. Thrasymachus tries to counter Socrates’s argument by vaguely proclaiming that injustice is more gainful than justice.However, Socrates bravely explains that the just man will live happily because he has a just soul, and the man with the unjust soul lives in poverty; therefore, injustice can never be greater than justice. At this point in the novel I saw Thrasymachus’s flaw and also the reason why Socrates has silenced Thrasymachus. Injustice, in my opinion, may be better as a short-term plan for pleasure, but in the long run the unjust man will be condemned by just men of his evil deeds, thus leading to his downf...
What Thrasymachus is trying to say is that the benefits of being unjust outweigh being just. While Socrates does not really offer a formal definition of justice when extinguishing Thrasymachus’ last definition of justice, he does however say that justice is an excellence and injustice a fault. Thrasymachus promptly disagrees with Socrates and believes that it is the total opposite stating that injustice is basically common sense. Socrates criticizes Thrasymachus viewpoint up to now and thinks that Thrasymachus is just saying nonsense by comparing justice to wisdom. Socrates then asks Thrasymachus one simple question and that is, “Will one just man want to get the better of another” (32). Thrasymachus answers no and Socrates then says that an unjust man is not in competition with other unjust people. Socrates disproves Thrasymachus’s idea that the unjust man competes with everybody by making a comparison between how other doctors are not competing against one another but they are doing their profession for their own self benefit. The other element that Socrates attack is that justice is a weakness, the flaw in this argument is revealed when Socrates talks about the thieves not stealing from one another because they would start fighting and ruin themselves. The disunity is evident and it could be concluded
Thrasymachus thinks that justice is characterized by self interest. Justice is the interest of the stronger party, that is to say might is right. Injustice pays more than justice, those who practice justice are simpletons and kind of weaklings. Human behaviour is and should be guided by self interest. Right is the interest of the stronger party .Thus the ruling class is found to oblige their subjects to behave in a particular way that will suit their interests. Justice indeed to him is the loss of the subject and gain of the ruler and stronger party. He speaks more in favour of injustice which is beneficial than justice.