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Plato's opinion of the family
The Trial and Death of Socrates
The Trial and Death of Socrates
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Socrates' Sides With?
Through my reading of Plato's Apology of Socrates and Crito, I have been able to see how Socrates makes important decisions and what he primarily bases his decisions on. As a individual person we have individual morals which lead us to our own moral or immoral decisions. Sometimes are own morals or beliefs might oppose the views of the state or the enforced law that clams to find justice. In this case we rely on our own beliefs that may be through passed down morals or through ones belief in a higher power to find justice. In my view I feel that Socrates respects the states law and ability to find justice but is willing to question it when his own morals or views on justice conflict with the states. With this idea in mind, I feel that Socrates would also take the same actions as Antigone in Sophocles's Antigone.
The story Antigone takes place in Thebes where Antigone's uncle Creon is the temporary king until Antigone's twin brothers Eteocles and Polyneices grow to an age where they can take over the thrown. when they became of age Creon was to choose one to take the throw. Polyneices thought that he would be king because he was the first born, but when Creon chose Eteocles to take the thrown. Polyneices was outraged and left Thebes and went to the neighboring city to fight against Thebes and ended up dying in battle, and Eteocles also died. Eteocles received a military burial with all the bells and whistles while Polyneices was sworn by Creon to receive no burial. Antigone decides that the ruling made by her uncle is unjust and goes against the king and secretly buries her brother because she feels that family comes before the state and even though he betrayed the state and fought against it he is family and therefore deserves to at least be buried. So the rest of the play is about Antigone's views on justice vs. her uncles views.
Creon as King of Thebes feels that although he is related to Polyneices he must rule with only the state in mind. Creon says to the people publicly, 'Polyneices, I say, shall have no burial';(Antigone 197) This shows the citizens that he has only the state in mind and will also help him to bring the people together so that they will respect him and back his authority.
Antigone sees the o...
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...unjust act. One supporting the Creon side may also say that since Socrates ended up sticking with his sentence and not escaping that he follows the laws handed down by the state. So by these few examples one could see other sides point of view
Is this side stronger than the side of Antigone? In my view Socrates siding with Antigone out weighs his siding with Creon. Here are some main points why I believe that Socrates would side with Antigone and not Creon. Antigone and Socrates both believe that there is a higher power than the state that commands them. With this believe they both feel that they are willing to risk death for what they believe in. They both also hold their families at a high level and would not want to see them hurt. we obviously know this to be true with Antigone and Socrates hints towards this same idea in the Apology when he says that he could have brought his family to the trial to show their grief but he would not want to put them through that for something that he has done. From this evidence that I have shown I strongly feel that Socrates would side with Antigone and he would have down the same if he was put in that situation.
Creon's noble quality is his caring for Antigone and Ismene when their father was persecuted. Creon is a very authoritative person and demands control of others. When talking to the Chorus, Creon does not ask them to agree with the decree but demands that they follow it. Creon expects loyalty from others. It is apparent that Creon is very dominating and wants to be in control. "The man the city sets up in authority must be obeyed in small things and in just but also in their opposites"(717-719). Through this quote the reader realizes that Creon wants obedience in everything he decides even if he is at fault. "There is nothing worse than disobedience to authority" (723-724). Further supporting Creon's belief that everyone shall remain faithful to him even if he rules unfairly. This is proved true when Creon says, "Should the city tell me how I am to rule them?" (790).
Throughout the readings of The Apology of Socrates and Crito I have found that Socrates was not a normal philosopher. It is the philosopher's intention to question everything, but Socrates' approach was different then most other philosophers. From one side of the road, Socrates can be seen as an insensitive, arrogant man. He did indeed undermine the laws so they fit his ideals, leave his family, and disregard the people's values. On the other side he can be seen as an ingenious man who questioned what many thought was the unquestionable. As he can be criticized for disregarding the many's ideals he can also be applauded for rising above the daily ways of popular thought. He questioned the laws that he thought were wrong and, to his death, never backed down in what he believed in. People may see that as stupidity or as heroism, the beauty of it is that either way people saw it, Socrates wouldn't care.
Creon believes that his laws are absolute and must be followed above all else, even Divine Law. Therefore when Antigone, in accordance with divine law, goes against Creons edict by burying her brother she is forcefully imprisoned and sentenced to death by Creon. In Creons opening speech he says, “Of course you cannot know a man completely, his character, his principles, sense of judgment … Experience, there’s the test” (Sophocles, p. 67). How Creon handles Antigones unlawful actions serves as his first test as the new king of Thebes and ends up showing the Thebans a glimpse of his true nature, that of a tyrannical ruler. This can be seen again when Haemon comes to Creon with the hope of dissuading him from his current course of action. He does this by trying to make Creon understand that the citizens of Thebes don’t agree with his use of power and planned execution of Antigone. Again Creons authoritarian nature comes to light in his response to Haemon, “And is Thebes about to tell me how to rule… Am I to rule this land for others – or myself?” (Sophocles, p. 97). To which Haemon counters by saying that “its no city at all, owned by one man alone” (Sophocles, p. 97). Creon, being the tyrant he is, fails to heed the wisdom of his sons’ words, which ultimately leads to his downfall. Creon, like Machiavelli, believed that it was
Sophocles play titled Antigone, embellishes the opposing conflicts between Antigone who stands for the values of family, and Creon who stands for the values of state. Sophocles explores the depths of Antigone’s morality and the duty based on consequence throughout the play, as well as the practical consequences of Creon who is passionate and close-minded. Although Antigone’s moral decisions appear to be more logical and favorable than Creon’s, a personal argument would be that both characters’ decisions in society can be equally justified.
Socrates refuses to disobey the law. He believes in the correctness of the cities laws. He believes it is never right to act unjustly. He thinks that if you do not agree with the laws of the area that you are living at, then to leave and go somewhere else. He argues that the government could be seen as “his parents, also those who brought him up,” (Crito, 51e), since he has lived there his entire life and when you live somewhere for so long you should “persuade us or to do what we say,” (Crito, 52a) or leave. Socrates tells Crito that
In the play, Antigone, two brothers are killed in battle. One of them, Polyneices, is considered to be a rebel by the new ruler of Thebes, Creon. The corrupt and prideful king, Creon, created an edict that states that nobody could bury Polynices’s body because he was a traitor to Thebes and his family and denies the sanctification and burial of Polyneices's body because of his rebellion and intends to leave him to become the meal of wild animals. Polyneices's sister, Antigone, defies Creon by giving her brother a proper burial, no matter the consequences. Both King and Antigone sought to do what they thought was the right thing to do, even if it was against the law. Though King and Antigone are two completely different people from two completely different times, they were actually quite similar in that they both were minorities at a disadvantage, and lacking power and credibility among those in control. King and Antigone both fought for injustice and what they believed in, however, not necessarily in the same
King was well aware of the laws, and knew that his protests, even peaceful, would have resistance to it. Yet, at the same time King didn’t care that it would’ve been illegal. He clearly stated that any law that he feels is unjust, he would fight against it whether it was legal to do so or not. The same can be said of Socrates in Crito, because he knows he got there for disobeying the law. In the eyes of the law, he corrupted the youth of Athens by exposing them to questioning and examining everything around them. When he is questioned why he doesn’t want to attempt to escape his death, he states that he feels it is unjust to escape. Socrates did what he believed his job was, which was to enlighten the youth to the unjust ways of society. While the way he was punished for it was unjust, Socrates stated that he has lived a happy life, and if he can’t rightly persuade the Laws of Athens to change its mind and let him go then he can accept
For these two articles that we read in Crito and Apology by Plato, we could know Socrates is an enduring person with imagination, because he presents us with a mass of contradictions: Most eloquent men, yet he never wrote a word; ugliest yet most profoundly attractive; ignorant yet wise; wrongfully convicted, yet unwilling to avoid his unjust execution. Behind these conundrums is a contradiction less often explored: Socrates is at once the most Athenian, most local, citizenly, and patriotic of philosophers; and yet the most self-regarding of Athenians. Exploring that contradiction, between Socrates the loyal Athenian citizen and Socrates the philosophical critic of Athenian society, will help to position Plato's Socrates in an Athenian legal and historical context; it allows us to reunite Socrates the literary character and Athens the democratic city that tried and executed him. Moreover, those help us to understand Plato¡¦s presentation of the strange legal and ethical drama.
From the Greek point of view, both Creon's and Antigone's positions are flawed, because both oversimplify ethical life by recognizing only one kind of good or duty. By oversimplifying, each ignores the fact that a conflict exists at all, or that deliberation is necessary. Moreover, both Creon and Antigone display the dangerous flaw of pride in the way they justify and carry out their decisions. Antigone admits right from the beginning that she wants to carry out the burial because the action is glorious. Antigone has a savage spirit; she has spent most of her life burying her family members.
The King of Thebes, arrogance lead tragic endings for his loved ones such as his wife and son. Creon believed that since he was the king, he had the right to make decisions without bothering to discuss it with others, and that he could rule alone, because he was greater than everyone else. King Creon had made a law to not bury Polyneices, if anyone were to br...
Socrates reaches a conclusion that defies a common-sense understanding of justice. Nothing about his death sentence “seems” just, but after further consideration, we find that his escape would be as fruitless as his death, and that in some sense, Socrates owes his obedience to whatever orders Athens gives him since he has benefited from his citizenship.
In Antigone, Creon becomes king of Thebes after Polynices and Eteocles commit fratricide in battle. Antigone commits her ‘crime of reverence(74)' by burying Polynices after a direct order from Creon dictating that everyone leave him on the ground, unburied. Creon first accuses the council of elders of being stupid and old (281) when they suggest that the gods were behind Polynices' burial. After this, he goes on a tirade against men who supposedly were not happy with his leadership and therefore paid off the watchmen to bury the body. Creon blames the watchman of burying the body for money and the watchman tells him that, "It's terrible when false judgment guides the judge (323)."
Socrates was not guilty as charged; he had done nothing wrong, as seen in the Apology. Not even a priest could tell Socrates what he had done wrong religiously, Euthyphro wasn’t even able to give Socrates a precise definition of piety. It is then questioned by Crito why Socrates would remain to face a penalty for a crime he did not commit. In the Crito, it is explained why, although innocent, Socrates must accept the penalties his peers have set upon him. It is his peers that will interpret and enforce the laws, not the law which will enforce it. Even if the enforcers don’t deserve attention and respect because they have no real knowledge to the situation, Socrates had put himself under their judgment by going to the trial. Therefore, Socrates must respect the decisions made by the masses because the decisions are made to represent the laws, which demand each citizen’s respect.
Therefore, to keep all of Socrates claims and arguments from contradicting, we must look at the agreements of Socrates accepting the punishment of death and the intent of Socrates to disobey the order to stop practicing philosophy separately. In both cases Socrates, as a citizen of Athens has agreed to do one of the three things listed earlier, stayed in Athens, and failed to persuade the Athenian Laws. Therefore, the only option left to avoid wronging the Athenian Laws would be to obey their orders. However, in the case in which Socrates was ordered by the Laws to stop practicing philosophy, he is willing to disobey. This allows two options, either Socrates is going against his own moral standards of not wronging another, or this agreement is somehow an unjust agreement. Assuming that Socrates is true to all his claims he would not wrong another under any circumstances. This leaves the agreement to obey the orders of the Athenian Laws to stop practicing philosophy as an unjust agreement.
In the retelling of his trial by his associate, Plato, entitled “The Apology”; Socrates claims in his defense that he only wishes to do good for the polis. I believe that Socrates was innocent of the accusations that were made against him, but he possessed contempt for the court and displayed that in his conceitedness and these actions led to his death.