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Thucydides vs herodotus
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Herodotus and Livy are arguably the earliest true historians in that they recorded occurrences with the goal accurately remembering them for educational purposes, rather than of entertaining the people. Although they do appear to attempt to provide an accurate account of the events of the time, there are some sections of the book where a clear bias is portrayed. Even though both Herodotus and Livy impart some of their personal opinion into their histories, they do so in different ways which ultimately leads to a divergence in their styles of writing.
Although there are times in Herodotus’ The Histories where he makes an assertion, based on his own opinion, and blatantly chooses a side to support, he claims that he will not. This is shown in
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his introduction, where he says that he is writing his The Histories, “so that human achievements may not become forgotten in time, and great and marvellous deeds - some displayed by Greeks, some by barbarians - may not be without their glory,” (Herodotus, 1.1). He expresses that he does not plan to simply speak of the Greeks and their heroics, but rather of both deeds of Greeks and of barbarians. Although he says that he wants to speak of both groups of people, there are times when he strays from his intention and becomes biased. His bias directly contradicts the reason that he said he was writing his The Histories, and calls into question the validity of his work as an accurate historical exposition. The best example of Herodotus’ bias lies in his story on the development of democracy in Athens. When speaking of the growth of Athens’ power, Herodotus says: Thus Athens went from strength to strength, and proved, if proof were needed, how noble a thing equality before the law is, not in one respect only, but in all; for while they were oppressed under tyrants, they had no better success in war than any of their neighbours, yet, once the yoke was flung off, they proved the finest fighters in the world. This clearly shows that, so long as they were held down by authority, they deliberately shirked their duty in the field, as saves shirk working for their masters; but when freedom was won, then every man amongst them was interested in his own cause. (Herodotus, 5.78) This is bias so blatant that it has no place in a work dedicated to historical accuracy. Herodotus not only portrays Athens in a favorable light, stating that they go “from strength to strength”, but he also clearly supports Athens’ new democracy. Where he says “if proof were needed”, implies that he believes that democracy is clearly the best form of government. This is also supported by when he says “this clearly shows”. Both of those statements have a certain tone to them that seems almost demeaning to anyone who does not support democracy. Finally, he says that “they [Athenian men] deliberately shirked their duty in the field,”. This is a grandiose claim with questionable grounds, as the only proof Herodotus has to support his idea that democracy makes men fight better is that coincidentally the Athenian army won battles after becoming democratic. The correlation between democracy and victory does not imply causation, and for a claim such as this, Herodotus truly needs more to support it. This quote also casts a shadow of doubt on Herodotus’ work as a whole, because although he was flagrantly biased in this situation, there could be veins of his bias running throughout his text, subtly hidden in the stories that the reader cannot easily validate. Although Herodotus is at times biased, there are instances in which there is explicit proof of Herodotus following his introduction, in that he shows both sides of the story. As a conclusion to an Egyptian story, Herodotus says, “Anyone may believe these Egyptian tales, if he is sufficiently credulous; as for myself, I keep to the general plan of this book, which is to record the traditions of the various nations just as I heard them related to me” (Herodotus, 2.123). Here, he implies that although he does not believe in the tale he just told, he is relaying it to the reader simply because that is what he said he would do. Although he doesn’t necessarily believe it, he promised to relay things as he heard them, and that is what he did in this example. There is also proof of his attempt to be impartial when he says “In this conflict of evidence, you may agree with whichever party you think is telling the truth,” (Herodotus, 5.45). He presents both sides of the story and acknowledges that there is a clash in what he says and allows the reader to choose which story they support. Livy’s introduction is somewhat similar to Herodotus. Livy says he “proposes neither to affirm nor refute,” the old tales which he might cite (Livy, 1.1). He is simply conveying them to the reader, and allowing the reader to make his own choice, much like Herodotus. Livy also says that he “hopes my [Livy’s] passion for Rome’s past has not impaired my judgement,” (Livy, 1.1) Again, Livy is similar to Herodotus here as he acknowledges his bias and says that there is a chance that his love for Rome will cloud his account of its history. Yet, although they have similar introductions, there are very few instances in Livy’s text where he states that he is being biased and that there are other sources to consider, whereas in Herodotus’ text, there are several examples of this. Livy’s The Early History of Rome is biased in some situations, much like Herodotus’ The Histories.
The main difference in these two is that Livy is much more insidious in his bias. He is not overt like Herodotus, but rather much more subtle. A prime example of Livy’s shrewd bias lies in his portrayal of Camillus. Livy shows Camillus as an adept military leader as well as a religious figure who led to the revival of religion in Rome. Livy says, through Camillus, that there is no wonder “the country has gone raving mad,” and then goes on to say that “you [the Romans] think of anything rather than of your duty to make your peace with God,” (Livy, 5.24). The religious revival the Camillus instigates in Livy’s stories raises Camillus and depicts him as a morally good leader. Camillus also leads the Romans against Veii, succeeding and vanquishing them. So, Livy portrays Camillus as a great leader, powerful both religiously and militarily. It is no coincidence that Livy’s contemporary Gaius Octavius, the founder of the Roman principate and first true Roman emperor, also caused a religious revival and was very successful militarily. The similarities between Livy’s Camillus and the real Gaius Octavius, whose favor would certainly benefit Livy, are too great to be ignored. Although Livy does not display this comparison in a straightforward manner, it is still present in his
work. The guileful way in which Livy weaves his bias is rather different than the visible bias in Herodotus’ work. The difference in the way these two historians interact with their own opinions leads to a disparity between them. Although Herodotus is biased, he is candid with it and often points it out, or is explicit enough that there is no question of whether or not he is being biased. Livy, on the other hand, is much more secretive. He rarely ever makes a real claim, yet there is a distinct bias in his work. He is not forthright with his influence on the historical events, rather choosing to veil it. This leads to a higher level of validity in Herodotus The Histories, where the reader can tell when Herodotus own opinions leak into the text, whereas Livy’s The Early History of Rome must be seen as a slightly inferior text, as his bias is covert and undisclosed.
Historical accuracy of Homers Iliad are a vital aspect of our understanding of the tell of Hissarlik. Researchers of the 18th century declined Homers Iliad as allegory however Schliemann’s archaeological discoveries reopened the debate. The excavations at Troy show that was potentially based on historical conflict in what many historians believe today was the 12th century BC. Finley maintains that none of the events in Homers works are Historical. Other archaeologist and historians agree that there may be a foundation of historical events in the story but absence of evidence shows that it is impossible to separate fact from myth. It has been compare...
Brutus on the other had, while less extreme, found that when an overly ambitious ruler threatened Rome the only possible answer was murder. They resorted to the actions with true zeal and completely believed in their cause. Sincerity makes each character share the same beliefs about what they are doing. The country's well-being was the only thing on the leaders' minds. & nbsp;
Even if you do not like Suetonius' style, you must agree that he has achieved his goal of adequately exploring the lives of these 12 men. He wrote more than an adequate biography; he wrote an exquisite history of a very important period in the Roman world. Suetonius wrote so accurately that many historians today use his writings to describe the lives of the Caesars.
They both have an epic hero. In The Aeneid, this hero is Aeneas. Aeneas is often compared with Caesar Augustus. He is a strong leader and conquered new lands. “As firm as a sturdy oak grown tough with age when the Northwinds blasting off the Alps compete, fighting eft and right, to wrench it from the earth, and the winds scream, the trunk shudders, its leafy crest showers across the ground but it clings firm to its rock, its roots stretching as deep into the dark world below as its crown goes towering toward the gales of heave - so firm the hero stands: buffeted left and right by storms of appeals, he takes the full force of love and suffering deep in his great heart.” ( Virgil, Book 4, pg. 143, lines 555- 565). This passage using the literary element, simile. In this simile, Virgil is comparing Aeneas to a strong oak tree and able to withstand the elements. The simile also shows that the oak tree, Aeneas, is able to withstand controversy from all around. Since Virgil uses Aeneas as a parallel for Caesar Augustus, he is also saying that Augustus is a firm and strong leader as well. He is also saying that he will be able to handle the controversy in his current time and that he will come out
The origins of historical consciousness begins with the Jews, Greeks, and early Christians according to the author. Comparing the Jewish belief in Yahweh with Greek mythology, Gilderhus states that, “Religious myths, legends, and fables preserved in oral traditions satisfied the need of ancient people to know about their origins and predecessors.” (13). Other records, such as those of ancient Egypt, Sumer, Assyria, and Hittite Empire, were reserved to bloody accounts of war and brutality. After accusing the Jewish accounts of ignoring rationality for religiosity, Gilderhus continues to comment on the historical thinking of the nation who believed in mythology. Gilderhus accredits Greece with establishing critical thinking as an important part of historical analysis in order to filter the truth from the fiction. He writes about Herodotus and Thucydides, and Polybius, honoring them as quality historical writers before moving onto Christian historians. As Christians gathered the gospels and other writings to compile the New Testament, the study of the Old Testament became very important. In order to prove Jesus as the Messiah, in depth reading of the ancient Hebrew texts was
Plutarch presented history through biographical stories of the people that were important and influential during the time period he wished to address. However, after having read some of his work, one realizes that Plutarch inserts his own personal opinion and views of the people at hand into the factual documentation of their lives. For example, in The Life of Crassus, Plutarch expresses a general dislike and negative view of the man, but in The Life of Caesar he portrays the life through a lens of praise. It also seems that he uses his opinions of the people that he writes about to subtly extend moral lessons to the reader. What follows is a further isolation of Plutarch's opinions and lessons from within The Lives of Crassus and Caesar.
In the preface to The Alexiad, Anna Comnena shows the purpose of undertaking the history of her father. She says "the tale of history forms a very strong bulwark against the stream of time…As many as history has taken over; it abides together" (Comnena 1). This statement clearly shows the importance of history writing. It also shows the particular rationale that motivated Anna to write the Alexiad. She argues that, the events of the past will in many times be lost: they should be preserved for future reference by diligent historians (Dalven 2). Anna puts into records the reign of her father to ensure that its memories survive. This explicitly stated intent, gives her recorded material credibility as compared to other historians. Her intimate relationship with the recorded subjects, for example, her mother and father; make her work serve a greater and more personal goal that any other Byzantine historian (Peterson 23). In addition to explicitly asserting her reason to preserve her father's...
Herodotus and Sima Qian were undoubtedly great historians due to their substantial advancements in history writing. Thomas R. Martin concludes that the link between Herodotus and Sima Qian is their common goal to create history as a guide to the past, and that the history they create is left up to individual interpretation. Although the time period, backgrounds, and situations between the two historians were vastly different, comparing both of their work is an opportunity to view the writing of history across cultures and around the world. Their ability to write intricate and lengthy histories during the time in which they lived and under the circumstances they faced make them great historians. The way they composed their material and shared it with the world should be recognized and accounted for.
Herodotus was an interesting historian. His way of displaying a historical event such as the Persian War is different from how I expect a modern day historian to write it. He does not try to focus only on the Persian war but he goes into detail some times of the lineage of the rulers of the city-states even though that serves little relevance to the actual war. The accounts of history I am used to reading are more focused on the bigger issue and the historians do not deviate on long trains of side thoughts such as Herodotus does. Herodotus style of writing had me confused because he often would start on one topic and in the next couple of sentences move on to another topic before coming back to his main point about a paragraph down. I had to
Odysseus and Aeneas are very alike in some ways and very different. They are both epic heroes except that one is Greek and the other is a Trojan. Odysseus is from the Greek tale The Oddessy, which was written by the famous Greek poet Homer. His quest is to find his way back home after a long journey. Aeneas is from the roman tale The Aenied, written by Virgil a famous Roman poet. Aeneas’s mission is to find a new home for him and his family. Both these characters had many similarities and differences in their ways of fighting.
In Titus Livius’, The Early History of Rome, Livy takes on the task of documenting Rome’s early history and some of the famous individuals who help contribute to the ‘greatness’ of Rome. Livy dedicates an entire portion of his writing to describe the reigns of the first seven kings of Rome; all who influence the formation and governance of Rome in some way. However, of the seven kings in early Roman history, King Romulus and King Numa Pompilius achieved godlike worship and high esteem from their fellow Romans. While both highly important and respected figures in Rome’s history, the personalities and achievements of King Romulus and King Numa Pompilius are complete opposites of one another. Despite the differences found in each king and of their rule over Rome, both Romulus and Numa Pompilius have a tremendous influence in the prosperity and expansion of Rome in its early days.
To begin, both the leadership qualities and flaws of Aeneas and Odysseus must be examined in order to determine who the better leader is. Virgil presents Aeneas very differently than Homer presents Odysseus. They are both certainly heroes, but Aeneas seems more accessible and a stronger leader, due to the way Virgil presents him. Virgil illustrated Aeneas as a man that had to participate in many tests and tempering’s, and from that, his heroism was seen as flawless. The same goes along with Homers’ Odysseus, yet in a different, more astounding way.
In this essay I am going to focus in the Greek Mythology. In the Greek Mythology there is no single text that introduces all of the myth’s characters and stories because the myths were part of an oral tradition that unfolded gradually in the written literature of the archaic and classical periods.
Odysseus portrays himself as anything but a hero throughout Homer’s The Odyssey. Odysseus goes through his life believing he is the best. He has no regard for anyone’s feelings but his own, and he believes nothing and no one can harm him, not even the gods. Odysseus feels he is always the leader and no one can tell him otherwise. Odysseus should not be considered a hero because he portrays himself as a selfish man that failed his crew, and is controlled by his hubris.
An analysis of The Iliad and The Odyssey show us that Achilles and Odysseus do have several qualities in common, but that they also have numerous makings that show the differences between the two epic heroes. Both of these men are very violent and kill in very vicious was, they are also very emotionally immature, and finally both Achilles and Odysseus are favored by Athena. With all those features in common they also have several things that make themselves stand out from each other. First off, their mindset is very different. Achilles is very linear minded; he doesn’t beat around the bush and gets straight to the point of why he wants to fight. On the other hand, Odysseus is much more deceptive and cunning; he is very strategic and is almost more powerful with how he makes you think and act towards him. Next, their reasons for fighting are very different. Achilles is fighting because it’s his destiny and it’s what he has to do, Odysseus is fighting to get home to his family whom he hasn’t seen in several years. Finally, their homecomings make these two characters very different. Achilles never does get a homecoming, he dies at the walls of Troy as he is fighting. Odysseus, in contrast does end up coming home to his wife and son, that is, after he fights off the suitors that