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Justice :classical and modern
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The texts of The Oresteia, Euthyphro, and The Republic of Plato all have strong underlying themes of piety as it relates to justice. The definition of piety, does not remain static, but rather has a fluid quality that allows it to change over time. When considering the three works in chronological order, it is possible to realize a change in the definition of justice from a definition closely related to piety to a more censored version of justice. As the society and culture of the Greeks change and the people become less reliant on the gods, the definition of piety as it governs justice shifts from the divine to the individual.
In the early years of Greek culture, the people relied strongly on mythology. The presence of fate and curses take
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the responsibility of morality off the actions of the individual and put it on pleasing the gods. The presence of mythology allowed for a separation of the person and the actions. Actions were not pious or evil in themselves; the virtue of an act was based on how pleasing it was to the gods. Murder was deemed acceptable during these times at the request of a god, as shown in The Oresteia. When the Furies confront Apollo saying “You commanded the guest to kill his mother” Apollo replies simply, “What of it”, which indicates the lack of severity in what should be a heinous crime (200-201). Orestes is deemed clean again, even after the murder of his mother when Apollo “ordered him on, to my house, for purging”, which again illustrates that the effect of the action depends on the favor of the gods (202). This world creates a reality where pleasing the gods is paramount. In our world today, virtue is grounded in the actions we complete, and whether these actions in themselves are good or bad. In the early world of the Greeks ruled by gods, a virtuous and pious man did as the gods pleased. Virtue came not from the actions, but the consequences of the actions, and how they were received by the deities. Justice was reserved for those who did not please the gods, despite their actions.
The Furies focus on justice in a simple manner, as illustrated by their statement: “Matricides: we drive them from their houses” (208). Orestes killed his mother, which elevates the crime and “break(s) the god’s first law” (170). Justice, to the Furies, means that punishment must prevail for an evil deed, saying, “you’ll give me blood for blood, you must” (262). Apollo, however claims that Orestes’ actions occurred because he was both avenging his father’s death and following the will of a god, since Apollo himself “commanded him to avenge his father” (201). The Furies’ definition of justice primarily is built on the action itself, whereas Apollo’s definition is more closely related to piety: justice is obeying the god’s will. Orestes situation can be measured through either lens: it is just because he avenges his father’s death and observes the gods orders, or unjust because he commits murder, specifically the murder of his own blood. Justice and piety become difficult to achieve simultaneously for humans in a world where gods are wrathful, and following the will of the gods and being pious often means killing another human unjustly. Athena simply frames the situation saying, “Two sides are here” meaning the different definitions of justice are oppose each other (440). The Oresteia in its entirety is fueled by the conflict of the earliest form of justice, the form similar to piety, beginning to
change. Justice shifts from being an external force—a whim of the gods—to becoming intentional and internal to the people when Athena “found(ed) a tribunal…for all time to come” (599). Athenians now are responsible for their own fates, deciding what is right and what is wrong. This shift marks the beginning of the diminished role of the gods in Athenian culture. Piety remains central to the Athenians and their court system, but not piety as defined by the early Greeks when gods reigned supreme. The gods influence and power in this new worldview is moderated, but they still have a presence and are worthy of respect. Consequently, the definition of piety morphs from what the gods demand to what the gods see as good and right. Euthyphro brings his father to court because he believes “the pious is to do what I am doing now, to prosecute the wrongdoer” (5d). Similarly, the charges Meletus brings against Socrates relate to Socrates’s perceived disrespect of the gods, saying he “create(s) new gods while not believing in the old gods” (3b). The prevalence of piety and the strength of the gods influence declined as the culture developed from the time of The Oresteia writings. Plato shows the advancement of justice away from piety stating concerns that Euthyphro views piety and justice too similarly. Plato is quick to emphasize that piety is closely involved with following the gods, who tend to exhibit behavior that even Athenians in the time period of Euthyphro would agree is contrary to justice.
A twenty-first century reading of the Iliad and the Odyssey will highlight a seeming lack of justice: hundreds of men die because of an adulteress, the most honorable characters are killed, the cowards survive, and everyone eventually goes to hell. Due to the difference in the time period, culture, prominent religions and values, the modern idea of justice is much different than that of Greece around 750 B.C. The idea of justice in Virgil’s the Aeneid is easier for us to recognize. As in our own culture, “justice” in the epic is based on a system of punishment for wrongs and rewards for honorable acts. Time and time again, Virgil provides his readers with examples of justice in the lives of his characters. Interestingly, the meaning of justice in the Aeneid transforms when applied to Fate and the actions of the gods. Unlike our modern (American) idea of blind, immutable Justice, the meanings and effects of justice shift, depending on whether its subject is mortal or immortal.
giving him the welcome of a god, "give me the tributes of a man, / and
Justice is generally thought to be part of one system; equally affecting all involved. We define justice as being fair or reasonable. The complications fall into the mix when an act of heroism occurs or morals are written or when fear becomes to great a force. These complications lead to the division of justice onto levels. In Aeschylus’ Oresteia and Plato’s Republic and Apology, both Plato and Aeschylus examine the views of justice and the morality of the justice system on two levels: in the city-state and the individual. However, Plato examines the justice system from the perfect society and Aeschylus starts at the curse on the House of Atreus and the blood spilled within the family of Agamemnon.
The debate between Just and Unjust Speech highlights the ongoing debate between old and new traditions. These traditions can range from how to interpret laws to family values and the struggle between them is highlighted in Aristophanes Clouds. The battle between old and new is seen in argument between Just and Unjust Speech and the arguments between father Strepsiades and son Pheidippides. The constant battle between old and new is seen in many different areas throughout the Clouds such as justice, piety and issues of law.
Euthyphro’s second definition of piety is “the pious is what the gods love”. Socrates takes this idea and
Plato’s Republic focuses on one particular question: is it better to be just or unjust? Thrasymachus introduces this question in book I by suggesting that justice is established as an advantage to the stronger, who may act unjustly, so that the weak will “act justly” by serving in their interests. Therefore, he claims that justice is “stronger, freer, and more masterly than justice” (Plato, Republic 344c). Plato begins to argue that injustice is never more profitable to a person than justice and Thrasymachus withdraws from the argument, granting Plato’s response. Glaucon, however, is not satisfied and proposes a challenge to Plato to prove that justice is intrinsically valuable and that living a just life is always superior. This paper will explain Glaucon’s challenge to Plato regarding the value of justice, followed by Plato’s response in which he argues that his theory of justice, explained by three parts of the soul, proves the intrinsic value of justice and that a just life is preeminent. Finally, it will be shown that Plato’s response succeeds in answering Glaucon’s challenge.
During the time period of The Republic, the problems and challenges that each community was faced with were all dealt with in a different way. In the world today, a lot of people care about themselves. For many people, the word justice can mean many different things, but because some only look out for themselves, many of these people do not think about everyone else’s role in the world of society. The struggle for justice is still demonstrated in contemporary culture today. One particular concept from Plato’s The Republic, which relates to contemporary culture is this concept of justice. In the beginning of The Republic, Socrates listeners, Cephalus, Polemarchus, and Thrasymachus, ask Socrates whether justice is stronger than injustice, and
Let us firstly analyze and delineate the significant instances in the interchange between the unjust speech and the unjust speech. Both the unjust and just speech begin this interchange with a heavy slandering of one another. Perhaps, one of the most notable moments of this slander is when the just speech, after claiming that it believes in and stands for justice and is hence “speaking the just things”, is asked by the unjust speech that “denies that justice even exists” to “answer the following question, if justice truly exists, then why didn’t Zeus perish when he bound his father?” (p. 152, 901-905). The just speech replies to this question by exclaiming that “...this is the evil that’s spreading around” and that he needs “a basin” if he is to continue hearing it (p. 152, 906-907). Firstly the just speech, as a mouthpiece for the existing Athenian legal-political convention, has claimed that this legal-political convention is where justice in its entirety is to be found. Secondly and simultaneously, however, the just speech finds itself unable to articulate what it means by justice and how the teachings of the Homeric Gods, that have informed the construction of Athenian political convention, are positive and/or negative examples of an
Thrasymachus’s definition of justice is incoherent and hard to conceptualize within the context of the debate. What remains unclear is Thrasymachus’s ideal definition of justice. At first, Thrasymachus definition of justice after passage 338c remains disputable. Justice, Thrasymachus states, “… is simply what is good for the stronger” (338c). Therefore, on its own, this statement could infer that, what can benefit the stronger is just and therefore can be beneficial to the weaker as well. Therefore Thrasymachus definition can be taken in different contexts and used to one’s discretion. Additionally, Thrasymachus changes his definition of justice multiple times during the discussion. Thrasymachus states t...
...) see the bond of blood as superior to that of marriage. This causes conflicts between the gods. In the beginning of the play, this conflict is between Apollo, who believes Orestes should not be punished, and the Furies, who believe he should be punished for matricide. When judgement on Orestes is passed ("Athene: The man before us has escaped the charge of blood." line 752), the wrath of the Furies moves from Apollo to Athene. This conflict lasts from line 778 to the end of the play.
Traditionally justice was regarded as one of the cardinal virtues; to avoid injustices and to deal equitable with both equals and inferiors was seen as what was expected of the good man, but it was not clear how the benefits of justice were to be reaped. Socrates wants to persuade from his audience to adopt a way of estimating the benefits of this virtue. From his perspective, it is the quality of the mind, the psyche organization which enables a person to act virtuously. It is this opposition between the two types of assessment of virtue that is the major theme explored in Socrates’ examination of the various positions towards justice. Thus the role of Book I is to turn the minds from the customary evaluation of justice towards this new vision. Through the discourse between Cephalus, Polemarchus and Thrasymachus, Socaretes’ thoughts and actions towards justice are exemplified. Though their views are different and even opposed, the way all three discourse about justice and power reveal that they assume the relation between the two to be separate. They find it impossible to understand the idea that being just is an exercise of power and that true human power must include the ability to act justly. And that is exactly what Socrates seeks to refute.
After a critical reading of all three of these texts, it becomes apparent that there is a clear hierarchy of the different forms of justice. In Sophocles’ Antigone, it is shown that in society it is often the ideal of human justice that is put into action, but to people divine justice would often take precedence. This idea is echoed in Plato’s Euthyphro and Apology where this human (or political) justice is eventually put into actions, while this theoretical higher form of justice – philosophical – is brushed aside. While it may not be the most relevant of these forms of justice, it is shown again and again that human/political justice will almost always be in opposition to forms of justice that supersede humanities ideals. This aforementioned
In both Antigone and The Republic, elements of death, tyranny, morality, and societal roles are incorporated into each work’s definition of justice. Both works address the notions of justice in a societal form, and an individual form. However, these definitions of justice differ with some elements, they are closely tied with others.
In The Eumenides, the third book of The Oresteia, there exists a strong rivalry between the Furies and the god Apollo; from the moment of their first confrontation in Apollo’s temple at Delphi, it is clear that the god and the spirits are opposing forces. Their actions bring them into direct conflict, and both of them are stubbornly set on achieving their respective goals while at the same time interfering with or preventing the actions of the other. There is also considerable personal animosity between Apollo and the Furies, especially from the former toward the latter. Because of the differences between the respective ideals they stand for, their personal conflict is as intense as that brought about by their actions. The nature of the rivalry is ironic because they possess ideals that are very similar in some respects; both seek to establish order and justice in the world (although they have separate and very different conceptions of order and justice), and, therefore, they are striving for the same goals, yet neither realizes this truth.
For Plato’s thesis – justice pays – to be validated, he has to prove two things, the first being that justice is inherently good. In