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Thucydides’ Mytilenean Debate is an attempt to represent a fifth-century rhetoric in action. Such rhetoric is heavily influenced by an Athenian speech tradition of sophism or persuasive speech. Thucydides chooses Cleon and Deodotus to represent the opposite sides of the debate. Cleon, who argues for putting Mytileneans to death, is described as the most violent man in Athens. Deodotus argues against putting Mityleneans to death and uses rhetoric to persuade Athenians for a more rational and responsible decision. Cleon begins his argument by attacking the democracy for being indecisive and thus incapable of governing an empire. He argues that an empire is ultimately a tyranny and that the assembly fails to recognize that. The assembly doesn’t …show more content…
He believes that haste and passion are two worst things for good council and endorses deliberation to be the best policy for decision making process. Deodotus says that Cleon is trying to frighten the assembly with his arguments and that any good citizen wins by beating an opponent fairly in the argument instead of trying to frighten him. He undermines Cleon for criticizing the Athenian audience for turning the political debate into theatre and states that Cleon himself is giving the audience a good show. Deodotus attacks Cleon’s allegations of bribery and says that these kind of allegations destroy a city because they frighten off good advisors. He believes that the reasonable and responsible thing to do would be to refrain from harsh retribution and justice. While Deodotus does admit that the Mytileneans are guilty, he does not advise their death. If the Athenians were to side with Cleon’s argument, they would commit a crime by killing their benefactors and would be facing the higher classes. By this, he means that the oligarchies would induce their cities to rise and revolt against Athens. Diodotus finishes by arguing for expedience over justice and deterrence over retribution for the sake of the city and it’s
...y exist within the two viewpoints, making a conclusion that much more difficult. Throughout the play, each character rattles off the reasons for their actions. Both also justify their actions religiously, believing they are the ones acting accordingly by the gods. The entire plot is a construction of conflict between personal and social motives, a scene not uncommon in today’s society. Sophocles attempts to answer the debate by ultimately showing that the gods approved of Antigone’s motives and that Creon should have buried his nephew. But with so much unnecessary bloodshed committed at the end of the story, it is impossible to believe that this is the final decision. Sophocles believed that the individual held the power and the state shouldn’t have total control over an individual. This is hardly a solution to the debate, the fact that everyone dies. Rather, it is a sign that the debate will live on for all of eternity.
Not understanding or listening to the opinion of others can frequently have unfortunate consequences and even lead to tragedy. In the play, Antigone, written by Sophocles, the two main characters, Antigone and Creon, both failed to listen which led to the death of several people. It was exhibited how important it is to acknowledge the truth and this was the central theme of the play. The conflict between Antigone and Creon started because they had opposing viewpoints of whether or not Antigone’s brother, Polyneices, should have been buried after he died in battle. Antigone strongly believed that Polyneices should have because it was the law of the gods and they are eternal, while man’s laws are not. However, Creon, on the other hand,
Throughout Aristophanes’ “Clouds” there is a constant battle between old and new. It makes itself apparent in the Just and Unjust speech as well as between father and son. Ultimately, Pheidippides, whom would be considered ‘new’, triumphs over the old Strepsiades, his father. This is analogous to the Just and Unjust speech. In this debate, Just speech represents the old traditions and mores of Greece while the contrasting Unjust speech is considered to be newfangled and cynical towards the old. While the defeat of Just speech by Unjust speech does not render Pheidippides the ability to overcome Strepsiades, it is a parallel that may be compared with many other instances in Mythology and real life.
The play Antigone by Sophocles is about reason and opinion and reveals how people use their voice to be heard. Antigone uses reasoning and opinions to express their moral beliefs and state laws in the play. People manipulate each other by using these terms to get their way by speaking out and standing up for themselves.
In this paper, I will first extract Thucydides views from the Melian Dialogue and then analyze whether or not these views are well founded. Thucydides believed that the Athenians had the stronger argument. Proof of this lies in the way Thucydides picked the arguments for each side. For the moment, we will disregard the actual content of the arguments, and look at argumentation forms and the flow of the debate. The Melians argued using consequences of an Athenian take over.
Creon does not want to be a bad king, using his power for evil things, but instead, he wants to be seen as strong and great king, but his temper and arrogance stops him from becoming a good king, and he stays more like a tyrant, the people only keeping their mouths shut because they are afraid to speak. For example, in lines (8-64) he gives a speech to the people of the town. He states that “As for the man who sets private friendship above the public welfare, I have no use of him either”(lines 23-24).He is being cruel, so the people of Thebes do not take him for an easy king but rather fear him if they do not obey his laws. This puts them in a tough situation, whether they should listen to their friends and the gods, or to Creon’s tyrical rule. Creon states, “As I see it, whoever assumes the task, the awesome task of setting the city’s course, and refuses to adopt the soundest policies but fearing someone, keeps his lips locked tight, and he’s utterly worthless” (lines 198-202). This shows Creon thinks that a good leader should be powerful and set firm, strict laws in order to be respected. He believes that if someone di...
In the following paper, I plan to discuss the source of conflict between the title characters of Antigone and Creon in Sophocles’ “Antigone”. I also plan to discuss how each character justifies his or her actions and what arguments they give for their justifications. I will also write about the strengths and weaknesses of these arguments. The final points I try to make are about who Sophocles thinks is right and who I think is right.
In 399 BC, Socrates, the great philosopher in ancient Greece, was put to death under the hands of his Athenian fellow-citizens to whom he had a strong attachment, after a final vote with over two-thirds of jurymen against him. We cannot experience the situation where Socrates gave his final argument in the court of law. From Plato’s Apology, we admire Socrates’ brilliant rhetoric and rigorous logic, while at the same time feel pity for him and indignant with those ruthless jurymen. However, the question of what exactly caused his death and why was Socrates, such a remarkable thinker sentenced to death in the very society that valued democracy the most is not easy and straightforward to answer. There are multiple elements involved that finally caused this tragedy in which “a person of high moral principle is confronted step by step with a situation from which there is no escape” (38). First of all, the moral principle and belief in divinity held by Socrates are inconsistent with those of the Athenian society, implying the very crimes charged upon Socrates were not completely groundless. Secondly, the imperfect juridical system of Athens played a role in causing this tragedy. What’s more, Socrates himself, could have offered better defense in the court, also had a hand in his own death by his stubbornness regarding to his own interpretation of wisdom and piety. His rebuttal, though brilliant and insightful, was not persuasive enough to move the fellow-citizens for his wrong approach and sophistry in his cross-examination on Meletus.
In Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War the Athenian Empire started out with just intentions, but once they had a taste for power they did whatever it took to obtain more, even if they had to take it by force. Over time the Athenian Empire became ruled by individuals acting with the sole purpose of furthering their own self-interests at any cost, which led to the empire becoming more amenable to the use of force as a means to get what they desired. One such instance where someone in the Athenian Empire was more than willing to use force to get what he or she wanted was during the Mytilenenian dialogues. The Athenian colony of Mytilene attempted to rebel against Athenian rule but when they failed their fate rested on the outcome of the debate between Diodotus and Cleon. Thucydides refers to Cleon as the “most violent man in Athens” and he demonstrates how he earned that name when he suggests that the Athenians kill every man of fighting age and enslave the rest. Cleon then says, “Give these people the punishment they deserve… show them that the penalty for rebellion is death” (Thucydides, p. 70-71) because he believes that this show of power and force will dissuade other colonies under Athenian rule from thinking about rebellion. Fortunately for the Mytilenians Athens did not use force in this
Thucydides, considered one of the greatest ancient historians, spent part of his life detailing the war between Athens and Sparta. In his work, The History of the Peloponnesian War, he includes a speech given by Pericles at the first Athenian funeral of the war. Right after the speech by Pericles, Thucydides follows with a description of the plague that cripples the population of the city. Thucydides does this to make a statement on his personal views of the Athenian society.
In Sophocles’ play, Antigone, the main character uses rhetoric to effectively persuade her audiences to sympathize with her. In the play, Antigone’s brother, Polyneices, dies a traitor to the Theban people. The king, Creon, decrees that no one is to bury the traitor despite the necessity of burial for proper passing into the afterlife. Believing that Creon’s decree is unjust, Antigone buries her brother. When she is brought to the king, Antigone uses this speech in defense of her actions. In the speech, she uses allusion, diction, and particular sentence structure to increase the effectiveness of her argument.
1) According to Thucydides, during the civil war at Corcyra a re-evaluation of values took place in the populace (3.82). Explain the nature of these re-evaluations, and the reason(s) they took place.
Creon declares that an incompetent king "refuses to adopt the soundest policies" and also" p...
Socrates reaches a conclusion that defies a common-sense understanding of justice. Nothing about his death sentence “seems” just, but after further consideration, we find that his escape would be as fruitless as his death, and that in some sense, Socrates owes his obedience to whatever orders Athens gives him since he has benefited from his citizenship.
Using Creon and Antigone, Sophocles illustrates the way that nomos and physis support their opposing viewpoints. When Antigone's two brothers, Eteocles and Polyneices, kill each other in battle, Creon, her uncle, succeeds to the throne. Once in power, he makes a law that no one can bury Polyneices because he was un-loyal to his native land. If anyone defied his new law by burying him, then the perpetrator would be killed and left unburied. However, Antigone felt that both of her brothers should have a proper burial, and disobeyed Creon's law by burying Polynneices knowing she would have to suffer the consequences. When brought before Creon, she defended her actions through phys...